Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

$3.30 ACOP Mega Giveaway Satellite, Bottom of calling range

Old
Default
$3.30 ACOP Mega Giveaway Satellite, Bottom of calling range - Wed Aug 20, 2014, 05:48 PM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
This $3.30 ACOP Mega Giveaway Satellite to $22 Stage 2 ACOP Satellite, only 2 seats are paid.

Does this hand qualifies as the bottom of my calling range here?

I mean what do I need here to call this shove I thought 99's is the borderline hand maybe I am wrong.

On a side note I had 20BB preflop this is a hand which is dicey to shove over a UTG raise but it's not so weak that I can just open fold so I choose to call not to set mine as I am not getting odds to setmine.

I want to know what do we do in these kind of situation when there is a UTG raise in front of us and we have 20BB stack and we have 88,99,TT,AQs (JJ+ and AK is easy shove over any open) These are the four hands that I am confused whether to shove over the preflop open or to fold. But eventually I think like AQs is a super hand that I can't just open fold but if I shove I am scared as UTG opener can show up with better hands like AK TT+ which means I am in bad spot so I end up calling as my heart doesn't allow me to open fold such sweeet hands and my brain tells me that it can be a bad shove over a UTG open

Same thing happened in this hand I had 99's for once I thought I can shove but then I thought UTG player will be opening decent hands from that position and he will snap call me with something that beats me.

 
Old
Default
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 08:59 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Adikumar2010!
With 99, I get a raise to 450 from UTG. I have 2 choices here and that is to shove or fold. The only way that I can call here is if I have 15X the bet in both my stack and the opp’s… and I have nowhere near this.

I now need to go to an ICM calculator to see what my shove range for this particular situation would be. When I put it in, I get a shove range of JJ+. Since 99 is not in this range, I need to fold.

As played, when I go to ICMIZER and put in the prior actions, 99 is actually nowhere near the bottom of my calling range. I get a call range of 66+ AJ+ KTs+ QTs+ JTs+. Due to this, I absolutely need to call the shove, but I shouldn’t be in this situation to begin with, as I cannot call the original raise to 450.

The key in the hand is to muck to the initial UTG raise.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

Tweet this hand on Twitter using the Tweet button above for a chance to win a seat in the next $5,000 guaranteed Big Bang tournament. You MUST include #LearnPoker and @PokerStarsPSO in your tweet. Winners will be notified by email every Monday. Good luck!


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 04:33 AM
(#3)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
I want to know what do we do in these kind of situation when there is a UTG raise in front of us and we have 20BB stack and we have 88,99,TT,AQs (JJ+ and AK is easy shove over any open) These are the four hands that I am confused whether to shove over the preflop open or to fold. But eventually I think like AQs is a super hand that I can't just open fold but if I shove I am scared as UTG opener can show up with better hands like AK TT+ which means I am in bad spot so I end up calling as my heart doesn't allow me to open fold such sweeet hands and my brain tells me that it can be a bad shove over a UTG open

Same thing happened in this hand I had 99's for once I thought I can shove but then I thought UTG player will be opening decent hands from that position and he will snap call me with something that beats me.
Mr.John what's the solution to this problem, if you don't mind sharing your expert advice.
 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 06:14 AM
(#4)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I was thinking it's not a super fistpump call because if a good player is in SB player shoes he will shove these hands :

1. These are the 4 hands we are ahead of : AQ, AK, AJs, 88
2. These are the 5 hands we are behind of: TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA

 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 10:38 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Every one of these situations is different, based on the opps and their chip stacks. There is not one a set range of hands that will work every time.

To know a range for a given situation, we need to go to an ICM calculator and put in each one of them individually. Changing the number of opps left changes the range, changing the chip stacks a bit will change the range. Learning this will take a TON of time and going thru example after example and putting them into an ICM calculator. Personally, I've done hundreds and hundreds of hands and am still surprised at some of the results that I get.

For this particular one, the range when the first player raises is JJ+.. that's it. Anything lower needs to be folded.

When playing near the bubble of a satty, the game turns into shove/fold. You can't flat with pairs unless you're deep enough to setmine (which is highly unlikely)

-----------
Those ranges that you have in your post are nowhere even remotely right. The opener is 24PFR and the other is 6 3-bet.. BUT.. when at a final table, especially in a satellite, ICM considerations overrule just a plain equity range. When you look at this hand, you need to put in what the opp's range actually is... not some arbitrarily made-up range. If you want a real estimate, you need to put your 99 vs a 6% range, as this is what the opp is playing per the PT4 stats: 88+,ATs+,KQs,AKo
Here's the range of the opener: 66+,A2s+,K6s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T9s,A8o+,K9o+,QTo+,JTo

The key is that the real decision maker is ICM, not just hand equities, because we need to take tournament equity into account.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 10:58 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
When you start playing with an ICM calculator, one thing that you will learn very quickly is that even if a hand is a +chipEV play, it can be a huge -tourneyEV play.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 11:12 AM
(#7)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Thanks I think I should use ICMizer, which tool can I use for that !
 
Old
Default
Thu Aug 21, 2014, 11:41 AM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
that's the name of the one I use (can only do so many of them a day). There are a number of ICM calculators out there though, that you can use.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com