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When to call or fold to a 3-bet?

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When to call or fold to a 3-bet? - Mon Aug 25, 2014, 03:08 PM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
This is very common scenario. It's early in the tournament and we have 100BB to 250BB stack. Coz mostly all MTTs start with 150BB to 250BB whether it's turbo, regular or slow structure. Only satellite start with less then 100BBs.

So we are in EP or MP and we make it 3BB with 22-88. Then we get 3-bet from someone after us to 9BB. It folds around to us, now we have to call 6BB more and to set mine we need 6BB X 15 = 90BB. Which we will have most of the time if it's the first hour of the tourny.

So once we get 3-bet we are always getting the right price to set-mine which is 1:15 minimum.

But I want to know what are the scenario where we can call the 3-bet to set-mine and what are the scenarios where we should fold, considering we are getting more then 1:15 to set-mine. What are all the parameters ?

In my personal experience I call if the 3-bettor is a loose player or a nit. And I fold if the 3-bettor is a tight player.

Reason is if he is loose then he will give me action when I hit a set and if he is a nit then he is at the top of his range like QQ+ which he will not fold if the under cards to his pair come on the flop, so I get the nit's stack.

But in the case of solid tight player things are different for the following reasons :
  1. Even if he has QQ+ he is capable of not getting broke in that hand and sometimes even fold on a wet board.
  2. Also if he is 3-betting light then his range is wide which means he can flop nothing or a weak hand if for some reason he 3-bets with like AJs AQs 77-TT then he will not be super happy on the most flops, so when he will face resistance from us he will not give action as his own hand is not strong enough to get stacked he will fold TT or AJ etc to a good raise from us.
  3. A TAG solid player can make our life difficult for example I raise with TT and he 3-bet I call. Now flop is like under cards to Ten for example 7 5 2, 9 8 7, J 8 7. He will make my life miserable coz he is repping JJ+ from the beginning so undercards on the board is not a dream flop for me. I will still be confused if he has over-pair or not. Maybe in actual he 3-bet me with AQo or 89s and as he as position he can triple barrel and make me fold TT even on a under card board as safe as 2 5 6 9 8 or 4 5 7 7 2, etc. And if the board has like one overcard to Ten then he will make me fold my ten's on just two barrels.

Last edited by adikumar2010; Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:32 PM..
 
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Mon Aug 25, 2014, 03:29 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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It's totally dependent on the opps, their stacks and how they're playing.

John (JWK24)


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Mon Aug 25, 2014, 03:34 PM
(#3)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I know it's opponent dependent just like 95% of other things in poker , but that's why I asked what are the different parameters that we need to look when choosing to fold or call the 3-bet . In which cases it's a call and in which cases it's a fold
 
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Mon Aug 25, 2014, 06:01 PM
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exit11967's Avatar
Since: Aug 2014
Posts: 20
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sorry a newbie reply.. for me at the moment.. gut and intuition.. lolz
 
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Mon Aug 25, 2014, 06:15 PM
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adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by exit11967 View Post
sorry a newbie reply.. for me at the moment.. gut and intuition.. lolz
What about I am due to hit a set from long time
 
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Mon Aug 25, 2014, 07:57 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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without reads:

Nit - fold, unless I have AA or KK. Even QQ can be a fold.

TAG - can flat or raise or fold, depending on table position and everyone's stacks

Loose - flat mostly, sometimes raise, small % fold (depending on position and stacks)

It depends on what hand I have and what range the opp is playing, along with position and everyone at the table's stacks.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:01 AM
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spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Adi have you ever tried playing cash games?

I found that learning cash games when you're constantly playing 100BB+ deep really helped me get comfortable with playing at this depth of money and just improved my game overall as I became more comfortable playing in 3Bet pots with high SPRs and having to make better thought processes post-flop.
 
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Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:13 AM
(#8)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
I play live cash games $1/$1 and $1/$2 all the time, there I 80% call the 3-bet. But sometimes I do fold mainly because the bet sizing in cash games are huge like I open 5BB, someone 3-bets to 20BB and in cash game I can call often as we always have option to reload..lol

So I play 200BB deep cash games, sometimes even upto 800BB deep.

Those cash games are my main source of poker income as I am primarily live game player. It's just I started online poker 2 years back just coz everyone is playing online these days and online MTT has unbeatable ROI if you make FT bcoz of the field size.
 
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Thu Aug 28, 2014, 02:58 AM
(#9)
Nataraj1's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 573
Good series of posts and questions, Adikumar. Keep them coming and good luck at the tables.
 
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Thu Aug 28, 2014, 03:12 AM
(#10)
Nataraj1's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
I know it's opponent dependent just like 95% of other things in poker , but that's why I asked what are the different parameters that we need to look when choosing to fold or call the 3-bet . In which cases it's a call and in which cases it's a fold
Not sure you considered this, but a couple of parameters you probably should consider are the tournament stage and M / Stack sizes at these stages.
 
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Mon Oct 13, 2014, 04:12 PM
(#11)
Exposured's Avatar
Since: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
remember that you only hit your set 1 out of 8.5(?) times. So, when calling in general is not bad, it's also not going to be profitable in the long run either. If you get the right price and you are deep enough, you can just setmine. If you don't hit your set, then just fold to another barrel on the flop or turn. Even if the flop comes with low cards. A 3-bet in general is very strong (it depends on what position tho). Especially in EP you are definitely behind your opponents range.
 
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Tue Oct 14, 2014, 06:35 PM
(#12)
Nataraj1's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 573
Good thing this is bumped since I had missed you mentioned early stage.

Thought about this again, and there's definitely a lot to be explored thinking about ranges here.

Based on villain's position and tendencies, what could be his range for 3-betting? This should be tighter than his normal range for open-raising in his position.

Therefore, our range for calling the 3-bet must be tighter than our range for open-raising in our position. A look at Equilab, inputting Villain's range can provide us with our range to call the 3-bet. I imagine it will be very tight.

Since we are talking about pairs, I think I would need at least JJ to call the 3-bet, but then again my goal is purely to set-mine. If I don't hit my set, I'd need to get out facing any form of pressure.
 

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