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Can I shove 18BB direct?

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Can I shove 18BB direct? - Sat Sep 06, 2014, 04:51 PM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
It is $11 WCOOP-03 [Sunday Million SE] Satellite with 10,000 starting deep stack and 10mins blind level.

Should I just shove here like I did or min-raise and be prepared to call any shove?

Or is folding also an option after raising?

I am long way to the ITM.



STATS :
 
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Sat Sep 06, 2014, 09:40 PM
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ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
I'm shoving 17 bigs late position h/j without stats into 4 players with those stacks sizes behind. We have good fold equity against the bigger stacks and the smaller don't matter.

Not looking the stats. But 100% shoving into 4 nits - but what if a big stack is so loose and spite calls? That is a table observation and my decision is the same.

Raise folding is burning chips with action behind. Your calling the short bb, but what if one of the big stacks pops it up? Have you made a plan now to call everyone on the table or not?

PS. Just looked at the showdown - honestly, I didn't look before posting. So the sb wakes up with KK.


I'm happy - if this was my decision. Other PSO people may see more into the stats.

Last edited by ForrestFive; Sat Sep 06, 2014 at 09:58 PM..
 
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Sat Sep 06, 2014, 11:17 PM
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Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
I would want to raise, call off versus button and bb as shoving means they fold a significant amount of hands we dominate that are likely to rejam.
If I open and see a 3 and 4 bet then I can let the AQs go. If SB rips their 31bb (18bb effective) then I would not love it and probably end up folding too.
 
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Sat Sep 06, 2014, 11:50 PM
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ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Hey Prof, was thinking raise fold to the cover stacks and call shorter. Then 50/50 to fold out by shoving.

Missed the raise and "it depends" on the re-raise. Because a normal positional raise may fold out the bigger stacks anyway and shoving loses value from the shorter stacks.
 
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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 09:19 AM
(#5)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Raise folding AQs 18bb effective seems a bit nitty, but I would expect good 30bb stacks to flat a lot of the hands that they are happy to play for a button or bb shove, but not if hero calls the shove first. Meaning a reship from either of them is liable strong or at least does not include the AJ etc we want to see.
 
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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 05:37 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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how many are left? how many get tickets? what position are we in?

This is critical information that is needed and left out. Please provide.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 06:23 PM
(#7)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Super long way to go, like only 33% of the game is through. About 2.5hrs of game left. No need to even check ITM as I am very far from it.
 
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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 06:44 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
Super long way to go, like only 33% of the game is through. About 2.5hrs of game left. No need to even check ITM as I am very far from it.
How much of the game is good info, but are we in a cash spot? For example, if 25 get tickets and I'm in 15th, I'll need to play hands totally different than if I'm in 200th place.

In a satellite, your chip position is just as much, if not more important than your stack size in relation to BB. Depending on the position, the number of BB's that I have can be totally irrelevant.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 06:49 PM
(#9)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Around 140 seats paid and about 1400 players left. I am 624/1400. This is a massive field satellite.
 
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Sun Sep 07, 2014, 07:08 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Hi adikumar2010!

Since I'm not in the top 140 and need chips to get there, I'm going to make a standard raise with AQs here and hope to get action from the cutoff or button. My plan for the hand will to be to get it in with either the cutoff or button or BB (only due to their small stack), but to fold to a shove from the SB or any 3-way all-in pot.

Open-shoving this many chips in a satellite is normally going to get me value-owned, so it's something that I do not want to do. Satellite play is much tighter than a standard MTT (if you're playing them correctly), so I don't want to put my tourney life on the line where I should only get called by a better hand. I will still get about the same amount of folds if I make a standard open as a shove, but it gives me an out if I get more action than I want behind me.

In a satellite, even if I'm card dead, I don't want to be shoving until I'm isolated against 1 opp and I'm much lower in chips than where I'd shove light in an MTT. The number of chips that I have doesn't matter as much because I get the same ticket whether I have 1 chip or a million chips.

P.S. If I was anywhere near the top 140, I'd folding to the CO/BUTTON too. I do not want to put getting a ticket at risk without a made hand.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

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