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5nl cash table-, QQ. 3bet pre. 1 color flop, cbet get raised.

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5nl cash table-, QQ. 3bet pre. 1 color flop, cbet get raised. - Tue Sep 09, 2014, 05:22 PM
(#1)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328


Villain played 14/10 over 30 hands. Looked a bit passive but 30 hands is not enough to tell, imo.

My cbet was kinda big. Because it was a scary board, I wanted to make sure, I looked seriously interested in the hand. Does that sound reasonable? or is a smaller cbet better with a flop like this?

My cbet is raised. I figured AA and KK would have 4bet pre.
And I had outs to smaller flushes so I decided to shove.

Was this a good play?

If I take a range like JJ,88-77,55,AdKx, AdQx,AdJx,TdJd, 9dtd
I'm coinflippping

Is this a good range?


If I add AA and KK, things are much worse...

Last edited by rkleefstra; Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:18 PM..
 
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Tue Sep 09, 2014, 10:43 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I'm not a massive fan of the 3-bet pre-flop, to be honest. It's not terrible, per se, but I usually just call with queens against an UTG opener, especially if he's tight, as it's hard to get called by much worse.
I'd go with a smaller bet on the flop too. I want worse pocket pairs (even without a diamond) to stick around. When you bet big, it makes it hard for two black nines/tens/jacks to stick around, as they will hate most turns and rivers. To get max value, you need to keep low equity hands in the pot. In addition, if villain has a set and decides to raise, you want to keep some stack depth behind so you have implied odds to stack him with a flush (or an overset), while still leaving room to fold if he makes it clear he's going to war.

While it's often the case that villain has the nut flush draw and two overs when he check-raises/shoves this board, you're basically coin-flipping for your whole stack when you call off. Sometimes you're actually drawing dead. Since I don't like getting my money in bad, I'd often actually check back the flop and take my equity to the turn, where the situation will become clearer and I'm at less risk of getting felted. You don't always have to play for stacks just because you have an overpair. Indeed, it's sometimes a mistake to do that. I think this is a board and situation where a little pot-control goes a long way.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:02 AM
(#3)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
As always, thanks for your analyses Arty.

By not 3betting pre, I practically invite the whole table to join in. Something I don't want with QQ, so I would never flat here. It's true I'm polarising his range but I think that's less bad than a family-pot. In later positions, flatting is more and more an option.

Postflop, I get what you are saying. Checking behind would keep the pot small and with a hand like this that's not a bad situation to say the least.

Thanks
 
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Wed Sep 10, 2014, 05:15 PM
(#4)
shoim's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 180
Hey,

I am struggling with loosing money, a lot, by this :
Quote:
By not 3betting pre, I practically invite the whole table to join in.
What you are saying is true, you are inviting the table to join BUT, you are also inviting some random loose aggro blind or late position player to squeeze a wide range of hands and that is good for you because you now have more info. How ? : well, if UTG shoves and he or the raiser is a nit you can fold, you are protecting your stack not your hand. If UTG is just calling the 3b squeze you can call behind closing the action and see a flop.
This line gives you room to make moves as it hides your hand strength as well.

At least this is something I am experimenting with.

Regards,
Bogdan (shoim)
 
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Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:18 AM
(#5)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Preflop - I think Gareth's class last night was about this, sadly I wasn't around to see it. Villain's stats are really tight and I'd imagine his UTG is also pretty narrow, so I often just like to flat here as if we 3Bet, we're not giving much room for villain to come into the hand with hands worse than ours.

Postflop I think is OK, maybe you could go a bit smaller on the flop like Arty said but I expect to have the best hand fairly often when we GII here and even if we're up against a set, we always have our redraws that give us some half-decent equity.
 
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Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:35 AM
(#6)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
Thanks all. I suppose I should try to flatcall a few times to see if I like it... still feels wrong but Shoim has a point, and Arty and spand42 are my gods...
 

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