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Should I just start shoving AA pre flop

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Should I just start shoving AA pre flop - Fri Oct 03, 2014, 04:29 AM
(#1)
Webbo62's Avatar
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This seems to happen to me so often I either win a small pot with AA because it folds round or I lose most or all of my stack.

At least if I had shoved pre flop the op with 45d would most likely have folded.

 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 05:09 AM
(#2)
vjgaming's Avatar
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IMO: I understand from some little reading that I have done is that AA doesn't always fair very good with multi-way pot. Isolation if key. Shoving could have helped but can't say. Shovnig pre-flop definitely helps. Early in the tournament it becomes risky especially in a multi-way pot. Villain is placing you probably on AK / AQ OR A with good kicker ( needless to say you could have AA, KK, QQ etc..)

Villian with these cards has almost 32% chances of drawing his two way straight and some remote chances of a flush gut shot.

On the other side - it is probably very tough for HERO to put the villain on two pairs OR a possible straight draw with such cards on the board.

Its a tough call but if you ask me overall I am not folding with AA on that flop but probably am going all-in if not pre-flop. Best of luck!!

Will await to see what PRO says here!!
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 07:53 AM
(#3)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I guess this is a freeroll or "almost" freeroll like 10 cent ?

People are nuts and call anything. You played it fine but if you squeeze and 3 people call, there is just nothing more you can do than pray to the pokergods. AA in a 4way pot with more or less random hands has maybe 35% equity... at best. proceed with caution.

Shoving pre helps nothing. Or you get nothing, or people still call.

My advise : don't play them
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 07:53 AM
(#4)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I guess this is a freeroll or "almost" freeroll like 10 cent ?

People are nuts and call anything. You played it fine but if you squeeze and 3 people call, there is just nothing more you can do than pray to the pokergods. AA in a 4way pot with more or less random hands has maybe 35% equity... at best. proceed with caution.

Shoving pre helps nothing. Or you get nothing, or people still call.

My advise : don't play them
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 08:48 AM
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It was 25cent tournament its difficult not to play them maybe I should start limping with them and not betting on the flop lol.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 10:03 AM
(#6)
justletme142's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 72
looks like you played the hand fine.From that you should take what you,ve done correctly in this hand and be very happy with your play here. You charged 3x + 1 blind for each limper pre and thats by-the-book standard play , and you were able to build yourself a very nice pot from your opponents weak preflop holdings. You bet your hand suffiently on the flop and looked to extract value from all the Q,s in your opponents range. Having an opponent get it allin with oesd on a rainbow flop is as much value and play as you could expect.When your opponent gets there-tap the table say nice hand and move on to the next hand with a smile. You,re still in the tourny and you opponent has shown a weakness you can continue to exploit in subsequent hands and tournys. Good luck at the tables and continued success.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 10:48 AM
(#7)
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It just gets me that 45s would even call thr pre flop raise I know if I'm holding that I am not going to be bet 20% of my stack on it pre flop.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 10:59 AM
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Hi Webbo62!

The problem here is on the flop (preflop is correct). With 3 opps I cannot bet less than 3/4 pot (1590) BUT... this bet pot-commits me, so I absolutely must shove the flop.

By betting too small on the flop, the opp got the correct odds to try to outdraw me and due to this, I deserve to lose the hand and will lose chips on average to the opp each and every single time.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 11:00 AM
(#9)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
It was 25cent tournament its difficult not to play them maybe I should start limping with them and not betting on the flop lol.
Do not even consider doing this... it is a 100% losing play long-term.

John (JWK24)


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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 11:57 AM
(#10)
Noflik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24
By betting too small on the flop, the opp got the correct odds to try to outdraw me and due to this, I deserve to lose the hand and will lose chips on average to the opp each and every single time.
As played, the opponent doesn't get good odds, though. The guy has ~37% chance to win on the flop, and is getting 2.4-1. Moreover, why would anyone put their tournament on the line with only a straight draw (certainly this deep).

It's just one of those disgusting hands a micro stakes player has to endure.

OP: I would suggest maybe betting even stronger preflop (read: grossly overbet) if you find yourself on a table with a group of calling stations in the early stages of a tourney. The pots you DO take down will be bigger, giving you a better return in the long run. Also, you might even succeed in isolating one player.

Only do this if you know for sure you've got the right table for it though, because if you find yourself overbetting on a table with nitty tight players you'll find yourself winning only the blinds.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 12:14 PM
(#11)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noflik View Post
As played, the opponent doesn't get good odds, though. The guy has ~37% chance to win on the flop, and is getting 2.4-1. Moreover, why would anyone put their tournament on the line with only a straight draw (certainly this deep).
Due to the number of chips left behind for the turn, the opp DOES get the correct odds for an OESD. We need to give them the incorrect odds to see every street.

John (JWK24)


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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 12:17 PM
(#12)
Webbo62's Avatar
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I don't think increasing bet size pre flop is the way to go as that will tell the table the strength of my hand if I start putting bigger pre flop bets in when I have a premium hand.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 12:28 PM
(#13)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
I don't think increasing bet size pre flop is the way to go as that will tell the table the strength of my hand if I start putting bigger pre flop bets in when I have a premium hand.
I agree. When playing a hand, I want every single one of my bets to be standard. Players that bet more with better hands and less with marginal ones are turning their hand face-up to me.. so I know exactly what to do against them.

John (JWK24)


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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 12:58 PM
(#14)
Noflik's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I agree. When playing a hand, I want every single one of my bets to be standard. Players that bet more with better hands and less with marginal ones are turning their hand face-up to me.. so I know exactly what to do against them.

John (JWK24)
Changing bet sizes in special circumstances (such as this calling station-heavy table) works because players like you aren't the ones you're changing it for. You're changing it for the people who have no clue what they do, and simply don't have the skill to interpret other people's play.

If I find myself on a limping-heavy table early in the tournament, I will grossly overbet AA and KK. Donks will call, regs will fold. Early in the tournament regs fold 90+% of the hands anyway, so they aren't the ones I target.
 
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Fri Oct 03, 2014, 01:37 PM
(#15)
simonrdr's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 437
I agree with Norflik here. In these nanostakes tournies, when the table is call happy and weak (happens a lot early), deviating from standard lines can be profitable. These villains will call anything, so why not charge them the maximum to see a flop with these 54s garbage?
Now, I'm not saying I always do it. I will never do this past the 2nd or 3rd blind level, because then the field will already have lost most of its weakest players. But under the right circumstances I do think this is a profitable line in microstakes.
Yes, it is true that to a thinking player I will be playing my cards face-up.
BUT
1. I am not after the thinking player's chips in the early levels, I am after the weak player's chips
2. Once I do turn my attention to the thinking player's chips after the fish are mostly gone, I am already back to standard lines with all my hands.

I would have NO problem whatsoever with someone having a note on me such as : 'Overbets monsters early' :P
 
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Mon Oct 06, 2014, 06:53 AM
(#16)
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Really beginning to question whether it is even worth playing Aces anymore I am now at the stage where I have lost more than double the amount I have made whilst playing Ace's seems to me its one of my biggest leaks. I either get the blinds or they play back and I lose best part of my stack. In this instance had spent ages building a reasonable stack with steady solid play, then I get dealt Ace's and most of it is gone.

Seems when ever I come up against Ace's though it works for the other guy so maybe I need to try something different as I seem to get caught out by them often from limpers so maybe that should be the way I go.

 
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Mon Oct 06, 2014, 07:18 AM
(#17)
Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
Aces are a hand that win a lot of small pots or lose big pots. It doesn't mean you should stop playing them, it means you should know when they are good, or when you should give up.

In the most recent hand you were an 80% favourite. Forget the result, it's about the best bet in poker stacking a single opponent with aces.

You need to stop kicking yourself for getting your money in good. You can't win every one even when you make the right plays.
 
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Mon Oct 06, 2014, 11:09 AM
(#18)
Webbo62's Avatar
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Seems I lose everytime I play Aces, this was the very next time I got Aces. It just seems as though there is absolutely no profit in playing aces for me.

I think its a case of when I get Aces I am 80% garanteed to lose my stack.

 
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Mon Oct 06, 2014, 11:15 AM
(#19)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwick View Post
You need to stop kicking yourself for getting your money in good. You can't win every one even when you make the right plays.
100% right on target

John (JWK24)


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Mon Oct 06, 2014, 03:06 PM
(#20)
WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
Your bullets will come good when you are in a higher stake game down the road

When it really matters............
 

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