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SnG Tournament, was this a sensible lay down?

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SnG Tournament, was this a sensible lay down? - Wed Oct 08, 2014, 03:32 AM
(#1)
Webbo62's Avatar
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Fairly early in a sit and go with very little info on the villian.

8h 9h in the SB, UTG raises to 3xBB UTG+1 calls, I called.

Flop comes Jd Oh 10c giving me the straight, I felt this was a difficult one as AK was definitely in the range of both the UTG raiser and the UTG+1 caller, so I checked was this the best play or should I have led out with a 2/3 bet??

UTG bets 1/2 pot, UTG+1 calls, I call.

Turn comes Kc leaving me with the bottom end of the straight and definitely behind to any Ace so I check again.UTG checks, UTG+1 bets pot, I fold.

Was this the correct play, I don't know if UTG+1 actually had the Ace but I know it was definitely within his range.



 
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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 05:25 AM
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Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
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Easy fold in my opinion in a multiway pot with one behind.

I think the chances of him leading here without the Ace are slim after two players have showed willingness to play on after the flop.

Aces are definitely the range of an UTG raiser and UTG+1 caller.
 
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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 10:39 AM
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Hi Webbo62!

This is another one... muck preflop.

Playing too many hands from the small blind because it looks cheap is one of the biggest leaks that most players have (and one I need to avoid). Due to the postflop positional disadvantage, the SB is the place at the table where I should be playing the absolute least number of hands and do not want to be calling raises with marginal hands in.

If I saw the flop (which I would not), I absolutely 100% must be leading this flop and cannot check. I have the bottom end of a straight on a board where I can easily be outdrawn. I need to make a bet to price out the draw (2/3 pot with 2 opps). If I bet anything less or check, the opp gets the correct odds and I deserve to lose the hand and WILL lose chips on average to the opps each and every single time.

The turn is an easy fold. The opp got the right odds and hit a bigger straight.. so they deserve to win.

The real key though here is to muck preflop!

John (JWK24)


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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 10:57 AM
(#4)
Webbo62's Avatar
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Here's another hand from the same tournament although very late it was down to 10 players and the villian_4 had been stealing blinds regular with aggressive play I had conceded the last two BB's to him due to poor card holding. With the same tactic each time limp in then bet out on the flop or reraise any bet.

I'm pretty sure JWK will not like this play but I was sure villian_4 was on a bluff and decided to play the hand and let him bluff his stack into me with a pair of 8's.
He initially limped as expected so I raised preflop and he called.

Flop came Js 7d, 6d giving one overcard to my pair and a possible backdoor straight draw. I bet out 1/2 pot although I wasn't surprised when villian raised it as this was something I had seen him do several times although none of the previous times had gone to showdown so can't say what he had been holding. I called his raise.

Turn came a scary card of Kc so my hand now was just a pair of 8's I checked at this point even though I was prepared to shove to any bet, from comments made on other posts I guess this showed weakness so was probably a mistake. villian bet out with a 1/2 pot bet I was at the point where I had to shove or fold, I shoved 4,905 into a 6k pot. Villian called.

River came Ac, villian showed 5/6c for a pair of 6's, giving me a pot of 13,860 and going to final table as chip leader.

Comments would be appreciated although I would add I would not have made this play against any other player at this table.

 
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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 11:00 AM
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Forgot to add I maintained chip lead right to the end and actually held more than half the chips when we got to 4 up and went into heads up with a 6:1 ship advantage. I do think this was probably the defining moment as I went to the final table in a position where there were 9 players with 7 places paid and was able to steal blinds in 7 of the next 21 hands due to the chip stack I held.
 
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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 11:09 AM
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In the 88 hand, I could either check or raise preflop. I'll raise a % of the time and check a % of the time.

On the flop, this is a pretty good flop to lead into (absolutely will if I raised preflop)... but when the opp raises my flop bet, I need to muck.

Yes, the result was a win, but calling the flop raise on average is a losing play, as a competent player will only be doing this with Jx or better.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 11:13 AM
(#7)
Webbo62's Avatar
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Even when you are almost certain the op is on a bluff?
 
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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 11:22 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
Even when you are almost certain the op is on a bluff?
And what info leads you to that? Did they show any? How many hands were they playing? How often were they raising vs calling preflop? How often did they raise flop bets?

With no read info provided... it's a fold, but if there is additional info, then it could be a call.

When going thru a hand, I can only base things off of the info provided... if none is, then I need to go with the most likely scenario from an unknown opp, which is Jx or better, so I need to fold.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Oct 08, 2014, 11:36 AM
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As I stated in the post above he had followed the same tactic several times always from the button/HJ/CO just checked and in 7 orbits where he was in those positions he made almost identical plays 6 times. He only did it when it folded to him, he limped in every time, 4 times he made a pot sized bet when the flop was folded to him, in one of the other turns BB made a min bet and he raised to pot size. Other time BB had made a half pot bet and he had raised to double the BB bet.

You are correct in all instance I never got to see his cards as in all cases the blinds folded, that was the play I based my call of his raise on as I was expecting that raise before I even made my bet. If I am honest though I was surprised by the turn bet as I thought any bluff by that point was going to be expensive, thats why the turn was the crucial descision point as it was shove of fold.

I don't think he was a maniac though as most of his play from early positions had been solid I think he was just trying to take blinds as play tightened up so close to the bubble, considering most times he was hitting hard on the flop and taking considerably more than just the blinds. We were also short handed with only 5 at the table so chances of anyone getting good hands was slim. But guess if someone bets their stack on bottom pair they must be a bit of a maniac, unless he was also convinced I was bluffing.
 

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