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$0.11, MTT, KJ in HJ position was a fold correct

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$0.11, MTT, KJ in HJ position was a fold correct - Thu Oct 09, 2014, 04:05 AM
(#1)
Webbo62's Avatar
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11c $100 Gtd tournamnet about 50 mins into tournamnet. Villian_9 raised UTG to BB although he was big stack and playing most hands pre flop so no garantee he had anything more than a Ax or Kx. I called button shoved, he also shoved twice previously within the last 11 hands without getting called.

Buttons bet was 3k so would cost me 2.6k to call so about 27% of my stack.

I decided I was going to call if the big stack folded, but felt KJo was not a hand I wanted to risk my whole stack with.

Big stack called so I folded.

As it played out I would have won but not worried about the results more interested in whether the lay down was a good decision, my guess at the UTG holding was pretty accurate too.

 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 04:52 AM
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Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
Fold.

KJ doesn't do that well against any raising range as it's so easily dominated.

But a more practical point: You have a decent stack. There's no need to get involved in situations that will be marginal at best.

There's a good argument for folding before that from mid position. KJ is a trouble hand that you can lose a lot of money with, and hardly ever be sure you hit the best hand.

Hit your jack? Then your worried about overpairs or AJ.
Hit the king? AK, KQ might be out there.

To add to that, there are two small stacks that you can suspect might be looking to go all in at a good spot. This is certainly a good spot for the button, he's betting 3k at 1.4k of dead money. If it's not a hand you want to call this with, it can probably hit the muck.

EDIT: I didn't even see the early position raiser. A definite fold before it even gets to the button for me.
Even though the pot odds look really tempting, you're far from guaranteed to get them. Maybe I'll call if the table has been passive and everyone was on mid sized stacks though.

Last edited by Fishwick; Thu Oct 09, 2014 at 05:09 AM..
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 05:44 AM
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AS I say the early raiser was playing really really loose so I wasn't to worried about seeing the flop for the called bet, but with the button shove and the early raiser calling, the play didn't look so good to me when I would be playing for a big portion of my stack in a mutliway pot.

Button was still on 15 BB so not a garanteed shove unless he hit a decent hand although pocket 5's shove seems a bit loose, but definitely not as bad as the UTG raise and call with A7o I don't think.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 05:56 AM
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Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
Maybe but:

1. You don't have first in pot equity.
2. Still 4 to act, 2 of which will have position over you.
3. Just because he's playing a lot of pots doesn't mean he doesn't have a hand this time.
4. You have a danger hand that's dominated by a lot of hands someone from early position could raise with and isn't a great candidate to make a really strong hand or ever really know where you stand.
5. There are 2 short stacks still to play, and with the blind and antes they should be looking to make a move.
6. You're a big stack, I don't think there's much need to get involved with the other big stack.

It's a hand you might want to see a flop with especially with position against the raiser, but I just think too many situational factors are against you.

Button was 15BB, but under 6 times the pot, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-ratio . You can't ignore the ante. Not only that, but he has the fold equity of two people who put in 2BB each.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 05:59 AM
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Thanks for that helps loads, so really shouldn't have even been in the pot. But at least its clear that having made the mistake of calling the early raise the fold to the shove was the right decision.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 06:00 AM
(#6)
Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
In my opinion anyway.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 07:46 AM
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Thanks for that had never heard of M ratio before so something else for me to learn.

By the way I finished ITM in this tournament at104th which wasn't bad from a starting field of 1711 players but only a 23c payout from an 11c entry, but made a couple of silly plays at the end that cost me my stack when I didn't need to as I was sitting about 40th in chip stack sizes.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 10:06 AM
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45oul's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
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too much loud for a silly tourney...where 90% of the game play have no sense most of the time..
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 10:36 AM
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Not sure what your issue is with the tournament level oui, but we all play at the level we are conmfortable with, I had never played poker in my life until May this year so am still learning. So this level of tournament is the level I play at.
As you obviously don'r have any constructive information I'm not sure what the point of your post is.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 10:37 AM
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fold, fold, fold

against a player, especially from UTG, playing Ax, Kx, KJ is a snap-fold as soon as it gets to me. I want to be putting my chips into the pot when I'm ahead, not when I know I'm behind.

Against a shove and this player, KJ is going to win less than 1 in 3 (closer to 30%) and I definitely don't have the correct odds to play the hand here.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 10:42 AM
(#11)
Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
Not sure what your issue is with the tournament level oui, but we all play at the level we are conmfortable with, I had never played poker in my life until May this year so am still learning. So this level of tournament is the level I play at.
As you obviously don'r have any constructive information I'm not sure what the point of your post is.
I do pretty much agree with his point though.

Although it's absolutely correct to play at a level you're comfortable with, players in freerolls or near-freerolls just don't have the necessary investment in the result to play with effort or self control.

As such I do think the amount you can take or learn from hands is lessened.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 11:29 AM
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Yes but the point of this thread is to get hands discussed and learn from my mistakes so the learning is not actually done in game it comes from listening to players like you and JWK.

So why play at a higher level and get totally discouraged until I have learnt to improve my own play. But point taken I'll stop posting until I am playing at a higher level.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 11:36 AM
(#13)
Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
That wasn't to discourage you from posting, just to say that some of the play you encounter might not be logical, and therefore reads etc wont be as accurate.
 
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Thu Oct 09, 2014, 11:50 AM
(#14)
JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post

But point taken I'll stop posting until I am playing at a higher level.
that would be the WORST thing that you can do. The goal should be to constantly keep learning and getting better.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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