Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

Pot commitment & SPRs

Old
Default
Pot commitment & SPRs - Wed Oct 15, 2014, 05:09 AM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

I am still taking a bashing in terms of nonshowdown winnings.

I was wondering if the issue is about pot committment decisions and planning the hand.

I have read that a handy rule from "Professional No-Limit Hold'em: Volume One" is to never put 1/3 of your stack in the middle and then fold. The theory is that if you are putting too much money in the middle and then folding, you're investing too much money with weak hands.

Is the above statement a good rule of thumb above.

The issue I have with it is the following (as an example):

-----------------------------------------------------------
Both Hero (BB) and Villain (BTN) have 100bb stacks. Villain is also an unknown.

Villain bets 3bb and Hero responds with a raise to 9bb with AK.

Villain calls on the BTN

Pot is 19.5bb

KcJc6h Two toned

Hero bets 15bbs and is called by villain.

Pot is now 49.5bb

Turn is a 4c.

Now at this point, if Hero bets 75% pot and villain shoves all-in, he now has invested over 1/3 stack and by this rule for Hero it will be, potentially, a mistake to fold; however, if Hero check/call and villain makes a pot sized bet, then again Hero will have invested over a 1/3 of his stack and folding according to this rule is potentially a mistake. Do you just go with the hand? I will say that this is for 2nl Zoom where it's diffcult to hand read against unknowns as they could have anything.

What do we do? When playing in this situations, how should we plan out the hand so the decisions are easier to make?

On the flop the SPR is around is this favourable for our hand and how does this make our decision easier.

------------------------------------------------------------

I understand that we shouldn't have the attitude "oh well I have invested over a 1/3 my stack and so I have to stack off with anything" - when you clearly have the worst hand.

But I am finding that I am more the other way. I fold: a
a lot! And this is affecting my redline, I invest alot and then fold. The thing is, if I start to call in this situations, although improving my redline, this will affect my blue line, for good or worse.

Everyone bangs on about, don't worry about your redline as long as you are making money, well for me at the moment, the redline is overtaking the blue and so I am not making money. I think I am losing around -15bb/100 in red line. If I improve this to -10bb/100 I will be winning at a rate of 5bb/100, and that is a significant difference.

Anyways I thought I would post a few hands below that I played yesterday (14/10/2014) and let me know if I could have made any better decision preflop, postflop, pot comittment decisions, or SPR decisions, etc. In essence planning the hand better.


Hand 1

Villain is an unknown



Hand 2

Villain is an unknown




Hand 3

Villain is an unknown




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also if I look at my non-showdown winnings seats EP-BTN, I have the following graphs. The first one is when I was profitable at 2nl before I moved to 5nl. The second graph is now after moving back down from 5nl. A significant difference! I was wondering what your non-showdown graph looks like at positions EP-BTN.



and



Cheers,

Matt

Last edited by pullin1988; Wed Oct 15, 2014 at 08:37 AM.. Reason: Sorry meant to say check/call
 
Old
Default
Wed Oct 15, 2014, 06:45 AM
(#2)
Fishwick's Avatar
Since: Feb 2014
Posts: 55
I believe that the rule is meant as a 1/3 of your stack for the current action. Not the start of the hand, of course over the course of a hand you will sometimes fold after putting in a total of 1/3 of your stack. To address your examples:

"Now at this point, if Hero bets 75% pot and villain shoves all-in, he now has invested over 1/3 stack and by this rule for Hero it will be, potentially, a mistake to fold"

So to extend, hero should not bet 75% pot, he should shove.

"however, if Hero checks and villain makes a pot sized bet, then again Hero will have invested over a 1/3 of his stack and folding according to this rule is potentially a mistake. Do you just go with the hand?"

No, this particular action hero has invested none of his stack.

With regard to your red line, have you filtered for VPIP? It could just be that you're losing your blinds.

Last edited by Fishwick; Wed Oct 15, 2014 at 08:05 AM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Oct 15, 2014, 11:29 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishwick View Post
I believe that the rule is meant as a 1/3 of your stack for the current action.
Correct. It's 1/3 of the remaining stack in front of you for the current action.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Wed Oct 15, 2014, 12:02 PM
(#4)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers guys!

Fishwick: my blind play is not great and does need improvement, but it is no different to when I was profitable. I think most winning players are profitable in nonshowdown for seats EP to BTN, like I used to be. I need to address both.

Matt
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com