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What to do on turn?

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What to do on turn? - Sun Oct 19, 2014, 10:52 AM
(#1)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
It is $1.10 MTOPS #27 Turbo event with 3000 starting stack and 5mins blind level.

Should I have betted the turn and fold to raise?

I didn't go for bet-fold turn strategy as he was shallow and it would pot commit me if he shoves over my turn bet. As on turn he had almost pot size bet left so SPR was too low for me to bet-fold. Like if I bet 785 and he shoves its just 1500 for me to call ! So it will be 1:4.28 (almost 23% pot odds) for me to call his shove if I go for this plan also if he has a flush then I have 12% equity only.

Plus I don't want to put even single chip in the pot if he has a flush.

So once he shoved on the turn should I call coz if he made his flush this actions looks stupid to me, because most player will go for value bet but they do sometimes shove nuts also

Full Tilt Poker Game #34821427612: MTOPS Event #27 (272118627), Table 4 - NL Hold'em - 80/160 Ante 20 - 18:21:01 IST - 2014/10/19 [08:51:01 ET - 2014/10/19]
Seat 1: X3-RUS (8,120)
Seat 2: Luckholder1 (5,463)
Seat 3: Brad52286 (3,845)
Seat 4: L200211 (2,516)
Seat 5: adikumar2010 (4,837)
Seat 7: JBauer1927 (2,979)
Seat 8: breezn (2,940)
Seat 9: 40101075022003 (2,985)
X3-RUS antes 20
Luckholder1 antes 20
Brad52286 antes 20
L200211 antes 20
adikumar2010 antes 20
JBauer1927 antes 20
breezn antes 20
40101075022003 antes 20
adikumar2010 posts the small blind of 80
JBauer1927 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to adikumar2010 [ ]
breezn folds
revolverman9 sits down
40101075022003 calls 160
X3-RUS folds
Luckholder1 calls 160
Brad52286 folds
L200211 folds
adikumar2010 calls 80
JBauer1927 checks
*** FLOP *** [ ] (Total Pot: 800, 4 Players)
adikumar2010 bets 520
JBauer1927 folds
40101075022003 calls 520
Luckholder1 folds
*** TURN *** [ ] [] (Total Pot: 1,840, 2 Players)
adikumar2010 checks
40101075022003 bets 2,285, and is all in
adikumar2010

STATS :

Last edited by adikumar2010; Sun Oct 19, 2014 at 06:24 PM..
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:23 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi adikumar2010!

The key in this hand is NOT the turn, it’s preflop.

We have an unknown that opens and they are flatted by a tight opp. Ace/rag plays horribly against multiple players, especially the tighter opp. With these three player’s ranges, I’ll use 15% for the opener since they’re an unknown, 15% for the second opp since that is their VPIP and ATC for the BB since they can have anything.
Against these ranges, I only will win the hand 18% of the time. It's only 10% to call, but being out of position, I have this disadvantage working against me too and am easily dominated by especially the flatter's range. Playing ace/rags from the blinds is a big leak that many players have and seeing flops with them by calling is just lighting my chips on fire. This is a very clear, easy fold preflop.

On the flop, when I hit two pair on a very wet board, I need to make a standard value bet that will price out the draws. With 3 opps, this is 3/4 pot, so I need to bet 600. If I bet less and the opp hits, it’s my own fault that I lose.

The turn is just about as bad of a card as there can be. The gutterball straight got there, the flush got there and AT got there. With top and bottom pair, I need to check and fold to any sizable bet.

The key to this hand though, is to muck a bad hand preflop when I'm going to lose more than 4 in every 5 times.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

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Last edited by JWK24; Sun Oct 19, 2014 at 12:40 PM.. Reason: fixed error
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:39 PM
(#3)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
There are a lot of hand ahead of you besides just flushes, there are better 2 pair and straights as well. Against an unknown, I'm folding here and waiting for a better spot.
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:39 PM
(#4)
WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
JWK24,,,I'm folding, and he IS always right bless him !!!

its great to have you helping us
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:47 PM
(#5)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
JWK why 15% they all limped no one raised? Give them 60% range ??

There was no open !!! LIMPERS
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:56 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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The first opp is an unknown, so I need to treat them as a standard player, which is 15-20% and with them being in early position, I need to go to the bottom of this range. If they were in late position, I'd use 20% for them.. not more unless I have a read on them, which I don't have due to being an unknown.
The second player has a 15VPIP... so they're at 15% (if they raised, then I'd use their PFR of 9%).

The BB is a random, as they can have ATC since it was limped.

You can't just randomly up a player's vpip in a limped pot.. it is what it is.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:58 PM
(#7)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
We have an unknown that opens and they are flatted by a tight opp.
Where do you see the open?
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 01:00 PM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
Where do you see the open?
They OPEN-LIMPED.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 01:03 PM
(#9)
adikumar2010's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
You mean I can't complete SB when they all limp when I will mostly have better hand against all of them, I am sure A6o was ahead of them all preflop limping hands
 
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Sun Oct 19, 2014, 01:12 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adikumar2010 View Post
You mean I can't complete SB when they all limp when I will mostly have better hand against all of them, I am sure A6o was ahead of them all preflop limping hands
A6o is a 60-40 dog against the player with an established 15VPIP. When the other players are in the hand, each one lowers my % chance to win the pot.

I'd be tons better off with a hand like 89s than A/rag offsuit.

When there are a number of limpers, I can complete IF I have a hand with some equity. Due to having basically two opps on a 15% range (unknown opener and the established player), it's very, very easy for me to be dominated, so I need to fold ace/rag.

I'm not ahead of the others. There are 4 players in the pot and if everyone had an equal chance to win, I'd win 25% of the time.. but due to the opp's ranges, I'm not at 25%, I'm only at 18%... so I'm not ahead at all with A6o.

John (JWK24)


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