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Was this OK - Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:20 PM
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Webbo62's Avatar
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Just want to see what you have to say here I got max value but wonder whether I played it well.

Ks 10c in the HJ play folds round to me so I raise for 3BB
SB calls, no read on SB as this was his second hand and first had just folded round to him. BB folds.

Flop comes 6d Kd 10h giving me top two pair but putting a flush draw on the board, SB opens with a just under 1/2 pot bet, I raise to 19c villian calls.

Turn comes Js villian leads with a tiny bet of 2c, I suspect he may be holding diamonds and trying to keep pot small or he has 2 pair also. I raise to 29c villian calls.

River comes 10d giving me full house but also making the diamond flush, surprised when villian checks but I had been raising every street so if he did hold diamonds he could be planning a check raise.

I pushed all in on the basis I think he was playing the flush draw and has now made his hand.

Should I have shoved at the end a normal bet would have been close to half my stack anyway, but did I risk losing value by scaring away most hands such as 2 pair although I didn't think he would have me on the flush because of the fact I raised flop and turn. But I was still unsure what would have been the correct bet on the river and would appreciate you guys advice here.

 
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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:31 PM
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What are the reads we have on the opp?


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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:38 PM
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Only 55 hands played against the OP but reads are

VP22/PF2/AF 0.9
 
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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:52 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
Only 55 hands played against the OP but reads are

VP22/PF2/AF 0.9
in the OP you say there's no read, it's only his 2nd hand, so are these your stats or his?

Regardless, I think shoving the river is okay but you're right about the overbet being tough to call if he doesn't have a flush. Hands like KQ/QJ/QT primarily. On balance I think it's better to bet smaller rather than overbet shove... like half the pot, to target the weaker parts of his range for crying calls, as he may check/shove flushes anyway giving us the best of both worlds.

The real issue here is the turn raise... we would like to be able to shove blank rivers and rivers that fill us up for a reasonable bet sizing, so our turn raise needs to be bigger to accomplish this. If you make it .50c-.55c instead of .29c, that's still reasonable relative to the pot size, and sets up a reasonable river shove as well should he call it.


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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 12:53 PM
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I'm absolutely raising the flop here. The opp could have a king or ten, so with 2 pair, I want to get value from their one pair hands.

On the turn, this min bet is totally polarizing. It's either a blocker bet with a pair and gutterball straight draw, flush draw, two pair or AQ that wants raised. Since I'm ahead of most of this range, I'm definitely going to raise.

On the river, the flush hits, but so does my full house. When the opp checks to me, my thought process is.. how do I get the opp's chips in the pot? Here, a shove is what works best for me. If the opp missed a draw, they're not calling any bet at all, so my sizing is irrelevant.. they won't call. If the opp has a flush or maybe even some other hands (AK, JT), they'll call basically any bet... so my best way to get value is to shove and have them call. I don't want to leave chips on the table by not shoving as they may just call behind due to a paired board.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

P.S. Totally agree with Dave's comment about the turn raise. A bigger sizing makes it easier to get it in on the river.


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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 01:35 PM
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Thanks so sounds like I played it pretty well apart from maybe a bigger turn bet, I have to say it did occur to me to bet more but as I was sure he was on the flush draw and I was playing 2 pair I was potentially going to be behind if the flush draw came.

Dave,

Sorry I should have said those where the players stats at the end of the session, as I say I had absolutely nothing to go on when this hand was played, just thought it might help if I gave the stats I had for the player now.
 
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Mon Oct 20, 2014, 02:26 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo62 View Post
I was sure he was on the flush draw and I was playing 2 pair I was potentially going to be behind if the flush draw came.
I would encourage you to be cautious about selective ranging like this, there are made hands that fit this line as well, especially if the villain is a weak player. Even in the draw genre, you've got straight draws + a pair with KQ, QJ, QT.

Still, all the more reason to bump that turn raise up. If he pays .29c to draw maybe he'll pay .50c just as easily. And if the river comes a flush card (that doesn't fill you) and he moves all in you can just fold, we don't have to pay him off just because we have 2 pair if we feel strongly we're beat.


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Tue Oct 21, 2014, 06:48 AM
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Thanks again guys for the excellent advice, it really is appreciated.
 

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