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Played this really badly I think

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Played this really badly I think - Wed Oct 22, 2014, 06:59 AM
(#1)
Webbo62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2014
Posts: 357
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Hot $2.20 superturbo although I had satelited in via the 27c sat. So my real buy-in was only 27c.

blinds uopto 150/300 at this point I had built a quiet healthy stack.

I have 10s 10h UTG open limps his stats are VP30/PF10/AF3.2 I raise to 4BB. folds round to UTG raises and I call.

Flop comes 8c 8h As UTG checks so I raise 3,405 into a 6,810 pot and he calls.

Turn comes 9d UTG bets all in for 7,927 I think this is where I should have folded I knew villian had shown a tendency for aggression but I was behind to any A any 8 or pocket 9's, as he limped preflop an 8 or 9 could be in his range.

I made the mistake of calling, should I have folded to the turn bet as I think it would have been difficult to get out of it any earlier.


Last edited by Webbo62; Thu Oct 23, 2014 at 04:54 AM..
 
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Wed Oct 22, 2014, 07:45 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Hi Webbo62!

As the blinds go up, my raise sizings will drop. At this level, I'll be at least down to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper and with these stack sizes, more likely have even dropped to 2.2BB+1BB for each limper already, so preflop I will raise to 960.

I then get 3-bet and you're missing a very key stat, the opp's 3-bet%. The main stats that I use preflop from my HUD are VPIP, PFR and 3-bet%. When an opp 3-bets, this gives me a better example of what the villain's true range is. Without knowing this information, this could be a call or a fold. If I assume that the opp's 3-bet number is half their PFR, then when I put these numbers in pokerstove, my TT is a 57-43 underdog and is a marginal play either way. If their range is tighter than this (smaller 3-bet number) then this becomes a clear fold. If their number is higher, then since I'm in position, I'd call (if I was out of position, I'm folding).

If I do call and see the A88 flop, the opp's line here with a check is either the nuts or a large pocket pair that is scared of an ace. If the opp is prone to fold to flop bets (another HUD stat not provided), then I will bet 1/2 pot and my plan for the rest of the hand is that if raised, I'm folding. If called, I'm not putting another chip into the pot unless I get a 10. If the opp is not likely to fold to a flop bet, then I'm calling behind here for pot-control and will re-evaluate on the turn.

When the opp shoves the turn, there's no way I can call this. They're slowplaying Ax, 88 or 99 and I'm in deep trouble and need to fold and look for a better spot as I'm basically always crushed.

The keys are the missing read info. This could be a fold preflop and could be a check on the flop... but the info about the opp wasn't provided.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Oct 22, 2014, 08:37 AM
(#3)
Webbo62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2014
Posts: 357
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Ok his 3bet stat is 7.1.

Not sure I am experienced enough with the hud yet on postflop info. So am not using it to the best advantage but its also a big learning curve for me so long way to go.
But based on the fact I only have 71 hands of history with this guy his stats are
Flop CBet 67(3)
Fold to Cbet 25(4)

I realised after the turn bet was a big mistake especially having done so well to qualify to this tournament and building an healthy stack to make a stupid mistake of basically over valuing my hand. But if I was perfect I wouldn't be playing at these levels.
 
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Wed Oct 22, 2014, 10:46 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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With a 7.1% 3-bet, I'm a coin-flip, so I'd call the 3-bet.

You don't have the fold to flop bet (fold to c-bet is only when we continue from being the last flop raiser).. BUT... it can show a key. 25% fold is very, very, very low. With this being the case, I'm checking the flop behind because the opp won't fold if they have an A or not.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Oct 23, 2014, 12:16 AM
(#5)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Ouch! I mainly agree with John's perspective, but here is an observation that I hope can help.

I see this often enough playing micro-stakes Zoom cash games. This situation seems very similar. Even with a 7% 3bet range, it is usually exactly what it looks like: The villain is setting a simple trap using the top of his range. Someone limps UTG then re-raises, or even jams it all in pre-flop. Because it is an over-pair often enough, you can feel comfortable about letting TT go pre-flop. If you think/know that a player is being trappy, don't bother paying them off. Calling is fine when you are deep enough to set mine, but give yourself 15 to 1 odds effective. In that case, there is the potential for the trap to recoil on itself. Definitely do not raise the flop without the equity to beat an over-pair like AA. For example, semi-bluffing with strong combination draws - like both flush and straight draws plus the 2 cards to make your set - would be a good move. Otherwise be prepared to let go of the hand.

Unfortunately the best way to learn how to recognize traps is to be caught in a few of them. In some situations like this hand, in the past, I have generously punted my stack by 4bet jamming.

Best of luck!
 
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Thu Oct 23, 2014, 05:43 AM
(#6)
Webbo62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2014
Posts: 357
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Thanks again for the great advice as always.

Yeah I think I missed several oppurtunities where I should have got away from this but I'll remember next time
 
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Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:49 PM
(#7)
knuckles1982's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
flop 2 bet and calling the 3 bet was fine. I think alarm bells should have been ringing before the flop even came as its not unusual to see people limp 3 betting with AK KK (less usual QQ). We all know people tend to become frustrated with KK with an A high flop so I wouldnt have bet at it as a means of pot control. I might have called a bet on the turn if there was no flop action but then again i would have probably folded on the idea that anyone with AK isn't folding, AA definately not, and KK i would expect a frustration call from the villan. Preflop was fine. Flop bet, debatable although it might have shifted a tight player off of KK but unlikely and stacks wern't deep enough to make it a viable option for a bluff especially since he already called the flop. Turn call, well you already know the answer there.
 

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