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[b][i]Not[/b]building the pot?

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[b][i]Not[/b]building the pot? - Fri Oct 11, 2002, 07:23 PM
(#1)
Deleted user
Dreams32097 recently wrote about a LHE situation (nothing personal) :wink: :

"I am in the BB holding AA and as usual there comes 4 limpers to me and I see no reason in raising here and building a pot..."

This is an approach I have perhaps never quite understood, and have always gone along with the rules-of-thumb - "punish the limpers","get your money in when you have the best of it" etc, meanwhile reading stuff about pot odds that support raising with AA even in the BB.

Surely you must raise with the very best hand, even out of position?
Otherwise aren't you failing to destroy the pot odds of the 66 limping type hands? What are you hoping for here, flop a rainbow Ace and squeak home by the skin of your teeth? Of course they'll all call, but your hand is better than theirs.

I've read this kind of thing so many times I begin to wonder if I have it all hopelessly wrong, and I'm willing to be put right.

cheers

Glenn
 
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Fri Oct 11, 2002, 07:40 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
I am limping with JJ here, raising with QQ, KK, AA.

Randy
 
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Fri Oct 11, 2002, 07:59 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
Raise to destroy their implied odds Glenn, not their pot odds. Raising is more likely to give them the pot odds to draw on later streets rather than destroy them.
 
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Sat Oct 12, 2002, 05:39 AM
(#4)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles
Raise to destroy their implied odds Glenn, not their pot odds. Raising is more likely to give them the pot odds to draw on later streets rather than destroy them.
Yeah That's what I meant. It was late.
 
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Sat Oct 12, 2002, 07:19 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles
Raise to destroy their implied odds Glenn, not their pot odds. Raising is more likely to give them the pot odds to draw on later streets rather than destroy them.
It really depends on your game; whether there are a lot of callers after the flop. I usually make them pay in this situation. The way I see it the draw must now make up 8BB rather than 4BB the 1 in 9 times (roughly) they hit. The pot gives them 5BB at the flop so they have 3BB to go. Not raising gives them 2BB to go. Which is more profitable over the long term? They will have the odds for their str8/flush draws anyway. They may not have the odds for their set draws in either case. I could be totally wrong, but it feels so good to raise in this situation!!! :twisted:

Regards, Den
 
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Sat Oct 12, 2002, 08:18 AM
(#6)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by maraden
The way I see it the draw must now make up 8BB rather than 4BB the 1 in 9 times (roughly) they hit. The pot gives them 5BB at the flop so they have 3BB to go. Not raising gives them 2BB to go. Which is more profitable over the long term? They will have the odds for their str8/flush draws anyway. They may not have the odds for their set draws in either case. Regards, Den
That's what I was getting at.
I can't see how one can fail to raise here.
Then however, we get into 'schooling' and Morton's theorem etc...

Limit HE is too damn hard :wink:
 
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Sat Oct 12, 2002, 12:52 PM
(#7)
Deleted user
Glenn,

I will never raise from the BB unless I have something like T:h:9:h: if it is a family pot and I am in a gambling mood. If it is 3 handed, I will most certainly raise with A:s:A:c: just as often as I will raise with Q:c:4:d: and try to take control of the pot. Problem with raising here in the BB is that these players know I'm not really the gambling type and will immediately place me on AA or KK. It gives them a huge advantage post flop against a known hand. I felt I could disguise it well here and hope to have a lone jack calling me, but when she 3 bet me on the flop, I knew I was behind. On the turn, I picked up the nut flush draw and decided to semi-bluff. The river blank forced me to commit one more extra bet to try to snatch the pot away from her.

Last edited by deleted_username; Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 06:57 PM..
 
Old
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Sat Oct 12, 2002, 01:22 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
Quote:
Problem with raising here in the BB is that these players know I'm not really the gambling type and will immediately place me on AA or KK.
That's probably an important consideration in deciding whether to raise with AA from the BB. Although, I think it may be best to start rasing with more hands from the BB depending on situational considerations, so that you can also raise with AA here, rather than just checking AA. I find Abdul and Gary Carson's book are very good resources to learn from, with regard when to raise from the BB according to situational considerations.

Limit aint my game though so I may be wrong.
 

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